EPISODE DROPS MONDAY. JUNE 17, 2024

0:00 – Jim Serpico
My name’s Jim Serpico and this… Should I start with my name? Or should I start with this is bread for the people? Do you like it like this? Welcome to bread. Or do you like it like this? Welcome. Ready? Welcome to bread for the people. Is we go.

0:26 – Jim Serpico
Welcome to Bread for the People. I’m Jim Serpico. It’s a Monday and I have a very special guest named Tom Stein with me today. Tom is the owner of one of the best, if not the best taco joint in Long Island, New York called Tommy Tacos. I’ve been at Tommy Taco I’ve been there. I’ve collaborated with Tommy. I think he’s got some of the best stuff around and I’m curious to ask him some questions and learn from him.

1:01 – Jim Serpico
Before I bring Tommy on, I want to bring you guys up to speed on where I’m at because I know you’ve been following along on the journey of me trying to open my first retail location on Long Island.

1:15 – Jim Serpico
I, as many of you know, I had a deal that looked like it was gonna go through somewhere and that fell apart. Hoping that was a blessing in disguise, I’ve scouted a few locations and I just recently, on Thursday, saw a new location that’s within 20 minutes from my home. It’s a little smaller than I ever expected to get my hands on. But the thing about it that interests me, and this is good and bad, is that it’s a raw space. And what’s good about that is I could design it to my exact specifications with the exact equipment I hope to bake with. Whereas most of everything I’ve been close on or looking at is probably an existing pizzeria that doesn’t really hold up well to baking bread, and baking the type of pizza I want to bake, because I want to bake mostly Neapolitan pizza, which has to bake at about 950.

2:19 – Jim Serpico
And quite honestly, most of the pizzerias around here were built many, many years ago, and they changed ownership, but they’re using an older technology, a cheaper oven that burns at about 500 degrees. So, you know, I’d be kind of wasting a bunch of money to buy those assets and rip them out. Now the bad side is, if I go into this raw space, I’ve got to pay for the build-out, I’ve got to pay for the equipment, I’ve got to get a CO. I don’t really know, because I’ve never been through this before, how long that would take. I notice that a lot of people that are putting up new restaurants and new concepts don’t open for a year. And I certainly don’t want to be in the position of Just pissing away rent, to be perfectly honest with you, and not be open. I quite honestly don’t have that kind of money. So, trying to figure it out. My guest a couple weeks ago was trying to convince me to move and do this in South Carolina, but we’re giving it a go here, and that’s where we’re at. Now, without further ado, please welcome my friend Tom Stein.

3:31 – Tom Stein
Jim, I can’t thank you enough for inviting me on the show. I’m excited. It’s my first podcast, so.

3:37 – Jim Serpico
I love it.

3:38 – Tom Stein
We’re going to break the cherry today, man. Yeah, exactly. So we’ll see how it goes.

3:43 – Jim Serpico
That’s awesome. So Tom, I know you’ve been through this, man. The little I know about you, you’ve been in the restaurant business for a long time, right? It wasn’t always specifically the concept you have and you were in fact working for other people.

3:57 – Tom Stein
Correct. I’ve been in the business probably 30 years so I’ve been doing this since I was 13 old working at the bottom in a dishwasher as my father’s restaurant in Vero Beach Florida and I’ve kind of moved up in ranks you know throughout the years to owning my own restaurant now but this is this restaurant particular is my first restaurant I’ve ever worked at or been part of as kind of fast food, I guess you could say. Most where I grew up and trained was always fine dining or really casual fine dining in my earlier career. But yeah, this is the first time really kind of a fast food concept that I’ve done.

4:35 – Jim Serpico
So let’s jump way back. How do you get from Florida to New York and then specifically to L.A.?

4:41 – Tom Stein
So like I said, I worked for my father since I was 13 dishwashing and I moved up in the ranks probably my first year and a half because the summertime in Florida is the off season. You know, nobody because obviously it’s so hot down there. There. So people go up north. And in that time, I when it was slow, I would when it was slow, I would start cooking, go behind the line learning how to cook learning and my father saw me, you know, take interest. And decided, hey listen, he’s doing really well at this, let’s move him, let’s promote him, so I started cooking and I started crushing it, to be honest with you. I really enjoyed it, I love the fast pace of cooking, creating dishes, this whole experience was really, really cool for me. Ironically, I worked for my father until about 17, and then my dad fired me.

5:33 – Tom Stein
per se, you know, kind of So actually he didn’t fire me. He traded me. I felt like I was in the NFL. He traded me to another restaurant called the Black Pearl, which at the time in Vero Beach was like the number one restaurant in Vero Beach. It was fine dining. And my father, how did you feel? You know, I was scared to be honest with you. I mean, you know, I, you know, I was, I was the top at the restaurant I was working at. So from, and I thought that I was, you know, kicking ass in a way, you know, and then my father, you know, he, kind of like, listen, you’re going to go to another restaurant, you’re really going to learn. And when I remember going there for the first time and I’m seeing these guys in chef jackets and the knife skill and what they’re doing, sauteing, nothing that I was pretty much doing, I was a little scared, but I was excited at the same time. And I’ll never forget because I will never forget my first weekend ever there. I remember I started on a Thursday. And then the very next day, I thought that, hey, I’m seeing all these guys. I was cutting scallions. And I’m like, you know, I got to learn how to cut the proper way. And I remember cutting scallions. And of course, boom. Cut off the tip of my finger. Immediately, second day there, no lie, yep. So I’ll never forget. There’s a guy named Ian Greenwood. He was the chef owner and another guy named Bruce Turner. They’re both English chefs I’m talking about. These guys were just like Gordon Ramsay. I mean, just how you saw Gordon Ramsay, I mean, exactly how they treated you behind the line. It was insane. So I’ll never forget Bruce. He was a chef of cuisine. He walks over to me and he looks down and literally my fingertip is on the cutting board. You know, and he goes, all right, just put a bandaid on and keep going, you know, to me. Yeah. And I’ll never forget Sam, this guy named Sam McClellan, which I’ll get to in a minute, uh, walks over and goes, chef, what are you talking about? His fingertip is on the cutting board. He cannot work tonight. So yeah. And he goes, Oh, Tom, come on. What do you, you can do it right. And I’m like, yes, chef, whatever, whatever you want, you know, I’m like, sure. And Sam had to step in. He’s like, chef, he cannot work the line. He’s bleat gushing blood. So yeah, yeah. So they, I got, went to the hospital. Of course I did not work the weekend. They, they, you know, luckily it wasn’t something they needed to sew back on. It would grow even though it never grew properly.

7:48 – Jim Serpico
Um, and you know, so you, so wait, we gotta stop for a second and I don’t want to get too graphic, but you’re telling me it was a clean cut.

7:58 – Tom Stein
All the way through. It was a side. I don’t know if you can see. So it was a side. If you kind of look at my finger here, it kind of goes sideways. Everything kind of grows to the side a little bit. So when the doctor said it wasn’t, it wasn’t important really to grow it, to sew it back on, it was going to be fine and heal itself. It just, it made me look a little deformed or whatever. And it is a little deformed. I mean, but you got to really look at it to see. So yeah, I was out for Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and I came back I think Tuesday, Monday or Tuesday, you know, fully banded up and ready to go. And that was my first time ever really, you know, in fine dining. Started off with a bang, literally. That’s amazing.

8:39 – Jim Serpico
Did you get it?

8:40 – Tom Stein
No, no, no, but they definitely gave it to me when I got back They were making fun of me for some time and that guy Sam McClellan. I just spoke about I started working really well and learning really fast and fine-dying to the point where I was pretty much You know behind Sam the number number two guy on the line Really doing saute and everything on the line and ironic he was at the time an executive chef at a place called the Beacon restaurant in Sag Harbor, New York and My first summer I would know my second summer actually with the black pearl I’ll never forget he goes listen. I’m gonna steal you this summer. You’re gonna come up to the Hamptons with me with me. And mind you, I’m still a senior in high school. I’m just about to graduate, you know, and I’m like, I don’t know, Sammy, I don’t know, you know, going to the Hamptons. He goes, don’t worry about it. Trust me. He goes, I don’t want to disappoint Ian or Bruce because, you know, I’m here. And this was, he goes, let me worry about them. And he did. He actually spoke to both the owner and the chef cuisine and said, listen, I want to bring Tom up. I know I’m taking your guy, but, you know, I want to bring him up. And he did.

9:44 – Jim Serpico
He so I at that point, You’re a senior in high school and you spend your summer in the Hamptons. Did you have plans to go to college after that?

9:53 – Tom Stein
I didn’t. When I was in high school, I went to Vero Beach. It was a massive high school. They had their own restaurant within the high school, literally a full-fledged, full-service restaurant. We got to do things weekly and create really cool things and do stuff for the staff and it was just running it like a restaurant. You had to do dishes, you had to cook, you had to plan, just like a normal restaurant. And I did that program. I had to join it when I was in ninth grade because if you joined it, you had to go 10th, 11th and 12th. And if you were number one, which was cool about this, if you’re a number one in your class, you got a full ride to Johnson and Wales, which I, yeah. So I thought this was amazing. I’m like, ah, let me do it. But at the time, as I was, you know, in the restaurant business, I, you know, I was like, I don’t want to be in this business. It’s, it takes, it just, it takes the soul out of you sometimes. It’s just a very hard environment to beat you up. I’m like, and I also was in my mindset. I’m like, I want it to be in finance. I wanted to chase money. I hate to say this, but I did. I’m like, I don’t come from money, so I want to be in finance. This is what I want to do. I want to be in Wall Street. So this is my mindset is what I want to do. And cooking was just a form, just something for me to get there. Pay for the bills, because I paid for my own college. I paid for everything. So anyways. I get number one in my program, they offer me Johnson and Wales as a full ride, and I turned it down. Full on. I know, it’s stupid. I look back, it was the stupidest thing I’ve ever did. I didn’t really…

11:23 – Jim Serpico
The number two must have been for that. He did, because he got it, and he went.

11:26 – Tom Stein
So, yeah, yeah. So I turned it down, I was really dumb. I look back, probably my only grit in life of that particular thing, situation. But, I mean, look, I’m still in a restaurant 30 years later, ironically. Yeah, I mean…

11:43 – Jim Serpico
So, once you start doing this thing at Sag Harbor, you really never went back and chased the finance?

11:51 – Tom Stein
So, I did. I actually, the money I made in the Hamptons paid for my college. I actually, I wanted to go to school for business finance. So, I went. My first year and a half, I did community college because I was paying for it. And then from there, I shot over University of South Florida in Tampa. I got my associates there as well as I had a minor in sports management and then from there I was still doing four to five months in the Hamptons and I would go back and forth for Tampa and Hamptons you know paying for my college and then finally after my second summer in the Hamptons I just loved New York so much and I loved the Hamptons I thought it was fantastic especially being a Florida boy my my entire life, I was like, you know what, Wall Street’s down the corner. I mean, literally down the block, what better way to transfer from the University of South Florida, go to Brooklyn College, is where at the time, you know, is where I applied to, I’ll get my finance degree here, then boom, I have more connections at Wall Street. And that’s kind of what happened. I did, I actually started doing that my second or third year, you know, here, I was going to Brooklyn College, I was living in South Hampton at the time, commuting to Brooklyn College. Three to four days of it. I don’t think I can’t think it was horrible It was horrible, but I was determined and I worked full-time mind you literally worked at night You know, sometimes I go and get on to one two o’clock in the morning. I’d be up at the 615 train Right there and then boom take me three hours to have three hours. Let’s get to there and back just to be there in time for my first class and It was it was tough. It was a tough few years. That’s for sure. But I But yeah, then I guess fast forward a little bit. I realized I didn’t want to cook anymore. And I had to get into the front of the house sometime. I saw at the time bartenders were just making killing out front. And I love the whole environment, bartending. And I remember going to the owner at the time, which was Sam McClellan. Now he owns The Beacon. He actually owns a few restaurants, him and a guy named David Lowenberg, who are big, big restauranteurs out in Hampton still to this day. I asked him, hey, I want to bartend. And they looked at me like, no. No way. You’re a cook, it’s what you do, you’re good at it.

13:53 – Jim Serpico
But let me ask you, you could be a great cook, and I’m sure you were, right? You were obviously important to them.

14:01 – Jim Serpico
Besides the allure of being with the people, was there a big financial difference?

14:06 – Tom Stein
Huge, huge, huge. I jumped double, I probably doubled my pay by going from the front of the house to the back, I mean from the back of the house to the front of the house. I was at the time, I had a really good friend at the time, a guy named James Fair. The Fairs, Joe Fair owns Bobby Vans, if you’re not Bobby Vance, a very big steakhouse out in Bridgehampton. They have numerous ones in the village in Washington, DC. And I was really friends with them. And James knew what I could do. He loved my personality. He loved my work ethic. And ironic at the time when I was speaking to him, the main bartender, their daytime bartender, quit. He gave notice because I think she was going back to school or something like that or whatever the case is. So I asked him, I’m like, hey, would you give me a shot? And he brought me in. And he talked to me and he’s like, you know, it’s the busiest bar in the Hamptons by far And you don’t know anything about bartending Anyways, I didn’t think I was gonna get it and I’ll never forget it I remember at the time two weeks after that interview goes by I get a phone call. It’s in the city I get a phone call from James and the very first thing he says is I need a bartender. I And I was like, no fucking way, this is happening. So I’m like, and he did, he goes, listen, you start Monday, come in, he goes, we’re gonna teach you, and he did. He actually taught me to bartend, and I was working Monday through Friday, day shifts, they didn’t put me at night, because it was just too busy. And my speed from cooking and being so detailed made me a really good bartender, to the point where my second year, You know, the second or third year, there’s a big, there’s a big paper out and it’s called Dance Paper that kind of circulates throughout the Hamptons and stuff. I got voted three years in a row, best bartender in the Hamptons. Yeah, so I got, yeah. That’s crazy. And then.

15:56 – Jim Serpico
Let’s explore that for a second. You’re a restaurant owner and we’ll get to the fact that you actually put in a bar recently, in your restaurant. But if you were, that talented and important to them as a cook and a chef, why is it that, you know, it’s a skilled labor that you were so great at because you started as a kid and put many years into it? It’s not something you could learn in two weeks like you could learn to be a bartender. So why are chefs and cooks paid so much less?

16:29 – Tom Stein
I think the profit margins are so little. In restaurant business, it’s so expensive to run a restaurant. I don’t truly think people understand how expensive it is to run a restaurant, how small the margins are. And especially now in this market, the way we are, I mean, the margins are even half of what they were when I was, you know, just 10 ago, just five years ago, actually, before, you know, the pandemic.

16:58 – Jim Serpico
So the perspective is right at best. If you are making 15% of your gross, that’s amazing.

17:06 – Tom Stein
Yeah, nowadays it is, unfortunately.

17:09 – Jim Serpico
But the reality is it’s closer to four to ten.

17:11 – Tom Stein
Yeah, realistically it is. It is. I mean, as everybody, I’m sure everybody knows, food is through the roof. Proteins of, you know, 200 to 300, 400% across the board has increased. Paper goods, electric. Utilities, everything, just across the board, it is super, super expensive. And then on top of that, now because of everything is so expensive right now to live, now it comes to your employees. Now your employees are like, well, I can’t live off of minimum wage anymore. I can’t live. I need this, I need that. And it is. They do. They need to live.

17:47 – Jim Serpico
Our minimum wage is a lot higher than a lot of other states’ minimum wage as well.

17:56 – Jim Serpico
But it’s also, when you read these people complaining about the credit card fees, what they don’t understand, if a restaurateur is struggling to make 4% profit, those credit card fees actually make a difference to them. It’s not like trying to rip you guys off. They’re trying to survive.

18:22 – Tom Stein
That’s good that you said that. It’s honestly, so I fought this as an owner. I fought this for a couple of years of Tommy tacos. I did not want to put this on there, but I’m looking and I remember my accountant saying, I think we need to implement this because you’re paying anywhere from 16 to month $1,700 to about $2,500 month in credit card proceed out of my pocket, literally out of my pocket for the convenience of somebody, you know, um, You know coming in and using a credit card, which is fine. We want to give them that convenience of that however It crushes it crushes the bottom line it really does and I hate to say that pay with cash We’re happy to give you that you know that you know that price, but I think 3% for your convenience I think nowadays shouldn’t be necessarily a big thing. It is gonna be the new norm I mean even the finer restaurants to find dining restaurants are doing and there’s a reason for it. If we’re not doing it, the money is not going into our pocket. We are not, you know, going to Barbados and partying with this money. I mean, you know, it’s just, it’s really to keep going and keep prices down. And I don’t think truly people understand, you know, what restaurants are struggling. I mean, look at these restaurants. There’s restaurants nowadays that have been business 20, 25 years, 30 years are going out of business because it’s so expensive to keep going. So it’s tough. I mean, I’ve also same thing. Everybody’s like, oh, well, I’m so tired of seeing the tips, you know, the tips you just handed me, you know, a cup of coffee. I don’t need to tip you for a cup of coffee. You’re right. You don’t have to tip me for a cup of coffee. That is your prerogative. And a matter of fact, They’re not looking down on you if you don’t tip. It’s okay. It’s a gratuity. What it does is it helps restaurants. That extra little bit of money that you give and you give to that employee helps them from minimum wage to more of a livable wage. Some people can argue, well, that’s not our problem. You’re right. It’s not your problem, but it is. It is. It is.

20:15 – Jim Serpico
I have to say, I think Long Island’s in trouble.

20:18 – Tom Stein
I don’t disagree.

20:20 – Jim Serpico
I think that, you know, looking ahead 25 years from now, this is all going to come back to bite everyone in the ass. Because you’re not going to be able to have employees at these restaurants. It’s already hard now, but it’s going to be impossible. There’s such a disparity between the income, between the people who don’t work in this business and the people who do.

20:45 – Jim Serpico
No one’s going to have those jobs. They’re not going to live here anymore. It’s happening.

20:48 – Tom Stein
It’s happening right now. I’m actually looking, it’s funny they say, I’m actually looking to the first time kiosks. Order kiosks in my restaurant. This is a mom and pop, mind you, I have a mom and pop restaurant and I’m looking for a kiosk to offset an employee because, not because we can’t afford it, it’s because They come in and yeah, it’s great. They’ll come in for a little bit of time and maybe they quit You know, what are the cases because they can’t live I’ll think about it $16 an hour That’s our minimum wage right in Long Island. So so you do a 40-hour workweek What’s that 640 bucks minus the government taking out 30% of that which is insane and on top of that I mean you’re now you’re looking away. Maybe you’re walking away with you know 1,600 bucks a month. You know take home I mean, I don’t know where in Long Island that you can you know if you’re $1,600 month you’re you’re you know you have a car payment you have rent you have gas you have everything else that go along with it You don’t it’s hard to survive it is you You can’t, you’re kind of passing through.

21:46 – Jim Serpico
You’re at a stage in your life where you’re doing something, this is your side thing, and you’re trying to do something else. And you’re probably working towards moving out of here.

21:55 – Tom Stein
You’re absolutely right. Most of my employees now are young, they’re under have 30, maybe one or two people that’s over 30. I do, however, in my situation, I kind of take from Peter and give from Paul, so I do give my employees more than a standard price of living, because I don’t want to lose them. And it’s actually a believer. And I look at it as, yeah, I could pay them. I’ll pay them more. Or I can pay them less. And then I’m constantly going in a revolving door with people. If I can give my team a livable wage somehow, some way, I will keep them longevity. Because it’s very expensive to keep hiring and training new people. It kills you. It’s very expensive. And also, quality. Quality goes down as well, right? Because you have to kind of reset everything. They don’t necessarily know your way. And it takes some time to kind of get them up to speed. So it’s a double whammy. And I look at it like that. Yeah, I make less money out of my own pocket instead of 4%, maybe or whatever. But I’m like, you know what? It just makes more sense for me. And I’m lucky enough for the last two years of being open for four years that I’ve taken such good care of my team that they You know they’ve stayed you know and the tips believe it or not I’ve now for the first time probably it’s been about two years since I implemented the The what do you call it the the credit card service fee I’ve implemented now that the tips and I didn’t want to do that again I didn’t want to do that either. We’re semi. Yeah, it is because you know it keeps me it helps retain those quality people, that extra little bit that they get. They’re getting an extra 100 a month, 150 bucks a week, I’m sorry, from the tips, whatever, and it goes a long way. It really, truly does. These guys are happy about it. They work extra hard. They’re not looking from job to job to job. They’re not looking to move over somebody down the road for 50 cents, stuff like that. It’s worked for me.

23:50 – Jim Serpico
Have you? So in terms of the kiosks, have you talked to other people that have used it? You know what?

23:56 – Tom Stein
I haven’t, to be honest with you. I feel like it’s a personal thing. I figure you go into like McDonald’s now or Taco Bell, it’s kiosks everywhere now, right? I mean, they’re doing it. They’re doing it for a reason. They have maybe one person at the counter. The one person at the counter is kind of more quality control or damage control. Or that he or she is an expediter. They’re making sure that everything’s bagged up and ready to go. I see from just my own experience of watching, it works. It also eliminates a lot of error. For example, if somebody says, oh, well, I said no cilantro. Well, here’s the ticket. It actually didn’t say no cilantro. And it kind of holds people more accountable a little bit the customer because you know right think about like the old mindset of the customer is always right I’m sorry I’ve been in business 30 years I understand that concept I really truly do but it’s not the case at all we’re human we all make mistakes and shit happens you know but I think when you show some I I have talked to people. Oh, let me hear. I want to hear it. Who have used it.

24:58 – Jim Serpico
Another pro is the upsell. Yes. Because when you set it up correctly, it’s doing what the human should do. But very rarely, unless they’re trained unbelievably great, are they going to be upselling the way they’re supposed to be in this business? The machine nails it and they’re more apt to add that extra guacamole, right? They’re just hitting that button. So there’s gonna be some extra money that way from the kiosk. The people that I’ve found that like it, use it as a supplement to a human body. And if some way you could do both.

25:36 – Tom Stein
I wanna do both. I don’t know if I would do 100%. I would want both. I still believe in some personal experience, especially in my business. Yeah. Exactly.

25:45 – Jim Serpico
So if you could do that, that seems to be the best way to do it. And then you start to, it’s like an A-B test, you start comparing. Are we making that much more extra money? And then we have to then talk to the counter people. Look at what’s happening here. This is how we have to be as a real person. You know, we got to sell the same amount of stuff as this machine. It’s pretty interesting. But I want to get back to you. That’s good. It’s cool that we went here and bringing up some other questions for me. But before we get there, So you ultimately graduate school. I do.

26:22 – Tom Stein
So I graduate business with a business finance degree at Brooklyn College. I actually get picked up by Morgan Stanley and Merrill Lynch. I chose Morgan over Merrill just because I felt like it worked for me. You know, they hired me. Three months I had to, you know, I had to pass my Series 7. That was the very first thing you do. They give you three months to do it, and they pay you to do it, to learn and to do it. If you fail, it’s an immediate termination. They don’t give you a second opportunity. And I never forget. So I’m studying, studying, and I’m not a great test taker. It’s something that I’m not. I overthink it. A lot of the questions to me sound the same. I overthink it is what I do. I really do. And I remember at the time, so 70 was the cutoff. If you got 70 or above, you pass. Well, guess what? When I did it was 72 and above. They just did it two months prior to me taking the test. I’ll never forget it. And guess what I got? A 71. So I would have passed it. So I remember walking out of that, you know, cause I have to call my, you know, my boss and tell him what happened with the score I got. Cause they tell you right there, And when you’re done, I remember going to my car and I remember sitting there and I cried because I was like, I pay for my own college. I just like, I’m like, what am I going to do? I just spent tens of thousands of dollars, you know, and what am I going to do? I’m like, you know, I’m, I’m at the time cause it took me a lot longer to graduate cause I had, you know, I was going to Hamptons, you know, back and forth. So it took me, I didn’t graduate in 2006. I was 26, I was 27 years old. Um, and I’m like, what am I going to do? And you know, I, I was like, all right, I picked my head up and I realized it is what it is. I remember going, I remember that week I go back, I was at Bobby Vans and I remember a guy, you know, I remember, you know, Tom Colicchio was opening up a place called Topping Rose in Bridgehampton as well, and I got offered a job to help him open the bar. Over there, you know do the bar program and I I did I took it I took it actually at the time Bobby Vans was slowing down I wanted to change a little bit. I really wanted to work for Tom Clicky. I thought it was a really cool opportunity. I’m like, you know, maybe this is my life. You know, the restaurant, you don’t choose the restaurant. The restaurant chooses you. It’s just, it’s just the way it is. So I just took a deep breath and I kept on moving forward. I went over and I remember going over there and I helped him out, opened up a little bit. And within a few weeks, the TOW organization, they were opening up a new, their very first steakhouse on the Upper East Side called the Arlington Club. And in time I was in the midst of a divorce. A lot of things were chaotic in my life a little bit. The Hamptons wasn’t for me at the time. It just wasn’t. I needed a really dramatic change. So I said, okay. So I moved to the city. I actually moved to the city and I started working at the Arlington Club, opened up TAL, or not TAL, that organization, and it was great. I worked for them for years, learned a lot from them. They are a powerhouse of a hospitality group. I mean, I’ve worked with them probably 10 years, but you look now, I mean, 60% they sold to James Dolan for MSG. So a lot has changed, but I learned a lot from it. The journey was fantastic. It really, truly was. And I remember going in the city, doing this, and I remember, I remember a waiter in there and said, Tom, you have a very good personality. You’d be really good in real estate. You’d be really good. And I’m like, I don’t know, man. I’m going to stick with the restaurant. I’m good for now. I’m going to focus on this. This is my life. I’m comfortable. I’m happy. And I kept on pressing, pressing. And I was like, all right, if I can, maybe I can. So I started doing real estate for a few years while I was working at night. And real estate was fun. You definitely make some nice commissions there, but it just wasn’t for me. Restaurant was always for me and I remember I remarried and my wife now, currently, she was like, you know, we were talking about me opening up another restaurant. I’m like, I just want something small. Just nothing big, something small, something I can manage, something that I can control. It’s not huge, you know, over-expense, you know, crazy expensive. And I’m like, what do I want to do? And I’m like, I love Latin food. Latin food is my ultimate favorite kind of food. I love Latin cuisine, especially growing up in Miami. You know, my father, since I was really starting, you know, until I was 12, you know, 11, you know, 10, 11, 12, appreciating, you know, food, starting to really appreciate food. I remember my father taking me to, you know, Latin restaurants, Spanish restaurants throughout I was going, you know, you got Cuban food, you have Puerto Rican food, Haitian food. And I remember loving it, the spices, the heat, just all the different colors. I just loved it so much. And I was like, let me go back to, you know, open tacos. I saw a really big trend at the time. Taco restaurants were really kind of growing. I noticed, I’m like, I know I can do this.

31:23 – Jim Serpico
And go ahead. Let me stop you here.

35:44 – Jim Serpico
experience to a fast food environment you know How much of the cooking and the stuff that you grew up doing do you actually do? Because at this point you create everything, right? You create the menu. You’re not even doing as much of the stuff you used to do.

36:07 – Tom Stein
Correct. I’m not. So the entire menu, the entire recipes, every single taco of the month that I do is all from me. I create everything still to this day. I don’t necessarily cook as much as I do in the background. I have a kitchen manager now that really runs his kitchen like its own and I see it. His name is David. He’s absolutely fantastic. I’m very blessed to have him. He treats this restaurant like its own. What I do now is more quality control than anything else. I’ll go through and my guys will know. They’ll go through the line and I’ll start tasting salsas and guacs and adjusting stuff. If I see something different or if I see somehow there’s a bad review or if I start seeing the same kind of thing, I’ll go and I’ll adjust it again. You know, but I don’t I try I’m trying to work on my business instead of working in my business And I didn’t necessarily understand that for a long time So I took a step back to really try to grow it and I’m trying to grow to Tommy tacos number two And kind of grow a little more But yeah, so I mean I’m fortunate enough now. Like I said, I might my staff now they know that they’ve drank my Kool-Aid. They know what I look for, to the point where it’s funny hearing my staff like, Tom’s not gonna like that. Tom’s not gonna like that. Or even like, we had an incident last night, for example. It was Taco Tuesday, and we get slammed for Taco Tuesday. And we had an incident where we had to guests come in, they waited a little longer than normal, but mind you, we had a massive amount of tickets in front of us and we’re trying to explain to the guests, listen, we’re very sorry, we understand you just ordered a few things, but mind you, all these people ordered some stuff as well before you. He didn’t want to hear it, didn’t matter, because he’s like, no, I only ordered this, that, so listen, we said, listen, can we buy you a drink, can we offer you some chips and guac, that kind of stuff, so you can sit back, relax, you have a little food, have a drink, all in all, we’re very sorry for the inconvenience, and of course, he calmed down for a second, but it didn’t matter, you know, he got upset again because it was a little longer than normal. The point is that, you know, I wasn’t here when it happened, but because of how I trained my, you know, my, my team. To handle a situation. They did all the right steps. They were calm with him. They explained to him what was going on. They were very sorry. They comped some things for him, tried to calm him down. Hey, listen, let’s give you some something to calm you down a little bit. He was happy to accept it. And then eventually, at the very end, he was still not happy. And I remember one of my team members, she called me. And she’s like, Tom, it made her sad because she’s like, I did everything you told me, and it didn’t happen. He was not happy. And I asked her to listen. It is, it’s okay. There’s only so much you can do. You’ve done everything that you did right. You’re probably, some people are just having a bad day and you’re right in there and you’re right in their way, you know, and there’s nothing that you can do. You could have gave him a hundred bucks and he still would have been upset about it. Didn’t matter. And that’s okay. As long as you know you did everything right and they got everything, you know, in a certain time, there’s only so much you can do. Some people just love to complain. It’s just what it is. You know, but, but, you know, they drink into the Kool-Aid, they get it, they understand it and they, they enjoy it. They enjoy hospitality because, because I feel like I’ve taught them how to enjoy hospitality. Um, there’s, you know, I, go ahead.

39:12 – Jim Serpico
I’m going through a training program before I actually jump in. Uh, that’s teaching me a lot.

39:16 – Tom Stein
What’s the training for? What is it?

39:20 – Jim Serpico
It’s called Unsliced by Mike Bausch. He’s a restaurateur that’s got eight to ten restaurants that started in Tulsa, Oklahoma. He’s an author. He’s on the World Pizza Team and I met him at Pizza Expo and I’ve listened to him speak and I read his book before I signed up with him. And he created a video master class with like 80 modules. That you go through and there’s exercises and worksheets. Like today, my son and I did our restaurant values, which helps us talk about what we’re looking for in an employee and how we train employees. It’s all related to that. Costing out recipe cards before we open. We’re going to have all that ready.

40:12 – Jim Serpico
You should, absolutely.

40:14 – Jim Serpico
It’s a lot of work, you know, that I would have never known how to do ever. Um, and hopefully we’ll be ready whenever the time comes, if it comes, but I love the experience. The other thing we do is we meet up every Monday at 11 on zoom from all over the world. So there’s 82 people in the program and there’s always about 25 people on the zoom and every question in the world in a restaurant, in the restaurant business comes up and he answers them. And, uh, and we’re supposed to, put in questions before we get on the Zoom. It’s very informative, and I love it.

40:48 – Tom Stein
I look forward to it. I did something like that. I actually had a restaurant coach about a year and a half ago, a guy named Donald Burns, and very similar, very, you know, in that field, and I was with him probably for about, I don’t know, five or six months, and I actually, he actually had a A full-on team, you know, we flew out to Arizona and actually had different, you know Speakers and that kind of stuff and it was it was amazing I learned a lot from him a lot from him the only thing one thing I can honestly say that I you know that I will say is that some of these Restaurant coaches have an old mindset of how to train, you know of how to like go to interviews. I in terms of you got to realize the one thing the only thing I can only say take everything was great except for this part is that employees are different these days the younger kids don’t are they they look at things different than when we grew up and that’s the only thing I will say when a lot of these you know restaurant codes like oh no it works it works let me tell you it doesn’t work a lot of it you know a lot of these kids are on their phones even when you tell them they don’t don’t be on your phone, they’re on their phone. And you tell them to take it away, they somehow, they’re on their iWatch. Somehow, someway, they get to the technology. I mean, you look everywhere you go, it’s a different world than when we grew up. That’s the one thing I will say. That’s for sure.

42:07 – Jim Serpico
I just read a big story today that Elon Musk put a satellite up so that these far remote tribes could get internet access. Like people who never had anything, right? They live in grass huts and they wear skirts. And this is a true story. It’s one of the headlines on Drudge Report. So they now have access to the internet and the kids in these tribes are addicted to porn and I swear to God and social media and then that yeah hunting and then not providing food Of course, I know And

42:48 – Tom Stein
the Internet’s great so, you know, listen the Internet’s great, but it’s also I think it’s definitely is her key the environment but that’s a whole nother conversation or society down the road, but Yeah, I tell you I’ll give you another I’ve you ever you know, Danny Meyer, right? You know, so have you read his? Yeah, no, he’s you have you read his book setting the table. I I highly recommend it. You’re going to open up your own restaurant. I highly recommend it. There’s a, uh, there’s a rule in there that he has, you got to mind you, this guy came from no restaurant experience at all whatsoever and opened up a restaurant, you know, right in union square, you know, with zero experience, which everybody thought he was crazy in the eighties. But the one thing, the one thing he did, it was called the 95 five rule. Um, and what That is, listen, I’m paying you to do 95% of what you’re doing here at the restaurant. I got that from you. However, what differentiates you from the next restaurant or the next team member is that that 5%, 5% everything in hospitality.

43:49 – Tom Stein
um you ever go to a restaurant and uh they say oh excuse me where’s the restroom and they just point oh it’s over there way in the back and stuff you know you’re like oh okay so I guess I just go back there and hopefully wish for the hope for the best kind of right well that five percent is that oh you knew the best and follow me sir you know and it Yeah, it’s the Trader Joe’s mentality

44:08 – Jim Serpico
of grocery stores.

44:09 – Tom Stein
Exactly, they walk you down, hey, they’re there, that kind of stuff. Or when, let’s just say an expeditor is walking through and they have a massive tray over their shoulder and they got all kinds of food up top there, and you know what? Most of the time, they’ll keep going. They’ll tell the guests to get out of the way because I have a lot of stuff in my hand, right? However, that’s not the case at all. A real expeditor will take a step to the side with that tray after you.

44:35 – Jim Serpico
You know what I wish? I wish they trained the employees at Restaurant Depot.

44:39 – Tom Stein
Oh my gosh, man. That place is… Because I feel like their goal is to run you over. With those damn carts, those damn… Oh, what do you call it? Oh my God, they drive me crazy. Yeah, the forklifts. Oh my God, they drive me nuts. They look at you like you’re in the way. I’m like, bro, I’m here. I’m the guest. I’m paying, you know, it’s… But…

44:55 – Jim Serpico
My son is afraid to go there because he thinks he’s gonna get killed.

44:58 – Tom Stein
Those guys move, man. It’s insane to me. But yeah, it’s so funny. And then you go to the checkout and that’s a whole other experience. Are you kidding me? Oh my God.

45:09 – Jim Serpico
You know what? They’re not going to listen to this. They are the most, at least, you know, the guys, I get it. They’re doing their job. But there’s a, but the people at the checkout, gosh, it’s like they hate everything. Everything.

45:20 – Tom Stein
It’s insane. Is there’s this one lady here, there I’ll never, she just specifically one lady that I refuse to go in her line. I’ll wait in a longer line. Me too. Yeah, just because I don’t have to deal with her. That’s how bad she is. I know them all. Yeah, I’m sure we’ll get off that call. I’m sure we probably know the same person. Brutal.

45:41 – Jim Serpico
So what do you think about, I would assume actually your place was brand new, now that I think of it. You must’ve put everything in.

45:50 – Tom Stein
So yeah, so we actually, it was an old pizzeria, but it was disgusting. So I pretty much built this thing from the ground up. I had to take pretty much everything out. I had to reconfigure the kitchen.

46:06 – Tom Stein
Everything in this restaurant was brand new, literally everything in this restaurant. So it was a very, very, It’s probably about $100,000 more than I anticipated. A lot of that $100,000 was because of COVID. And I couldn’t do a lot of work, so I had to pay for certain… I took a loan on the property, so I had to pay for that, even though I wasn’t in business. So I paid with the loan, kind of It made more sense.

46:31 – Tom Stein
You were paying for the rent, you’re saying?

46:34 – Tom Stein
I wasn’t paying for the rent. I was paying the loan payment. Oh, you got to keep paying the whole payment. Exactly, even though I wasn’t making any cash, so I lit up a lot of good money just sitting there for no reason because I couldn’t do anything. Legally, I could not do anything. My landlord was very generous in terms of, obviously, we’re not charging your rent until you’re open and full, and that’s something that I would suggest to you. I’m sure you know that going in there. You know, whatever it is, make sure you get your free rent. Don’t start paying for rent until you’re open. Until that permit says, you know, Suffolk County says, hey, or Nassau says, hey, you are open, you’re allowed to be open for business. Then you can start paying rent. And if a landlord doesn’t give that to you, I’d be very wary about that landlord. Because all that, you know, he’s not going to be in it for the long term. He’s just looking for the paycheck.

47:22 – Jim Serpico
What is the lag time here? Like, let’s say we could get the construction going. My biggest worry is the Board of Health or Department of Health and getting the place inspected and being able to…

47:33 – Tom Stein
They’re pretty fast. I mean, in my terms, they were here within a week. You know, once I give them, you know, hey, listen, we’re okay. We need the final inspection. They’re here pretty fast. They understand that you want to get open pretty quickly and make some money. So, I think it took me about four or five days. You know, not quite the full week they were here, and it was a pretty easy thing. They had told me to, you know, do a few things, but it wasn’t nothing for them to hold me up and opening up. They’re like, just do these few things, we’ll come back. And you guys are good, and they gave me the okay. What I would say for a landlord in terms of for you, for example, for free rent, obviously you’re going to need your lag time because you don’t know how long things are going to get delivered. You don’t know how long, if you’re a contractor, building it out, may have some other things going on, for example, and you just can’t get it in the timeframe that landlord is giving you.

48:23 – Tom Stein
pretty much looked at as a permit issued, you know, for example. Permit issued for construction, okay, you have, a landlord will give you, let’s say, three, how long do you think it’ll get, oh, three months. Okay, well, in that three months, if you do not get done, what held it up in that three months? Well, there was a permit that we needed for plumbing, for example, and the town didn’t approve it, we’re still waiting on it. Okay, well, the landlord, by law in that contract, says, okay, well, there’s nothing we can do about it, wait, let me know and get the permit. And it keep, you know, continuing you know, until you’re opening up. For the most part. I mean, that’s what my landlord did. They understood. They weren’t trying to kill me at first because they wanted me for the long haul. So it was good like that. They were pretty good like that.

49:07 – Jim Serpico
Did you use an architect? I did. I had to.

49:10 – Tom Stein
My landlord is a REIT, a real estate investment trust. They have a whole bunch of malls and shopping centers throughout New York.

49:20 – Tom Stein
It was mandatory for me to have an architect because they want schematics, they want drawings. And And then before you open up and for you know They want everything to be you know approved and done and ready to go before we open the doors Also, because if anything issues they want to make sure they’re protected as well in terms of not destroying, you know any of my neighbor businesses So mine was a little different but yeah, I do want to use an architect.

49:47 – Jim Serpico
I’m having a hard time finding a I’m googling, I don’t know who to trust and you also want to make sure that whoever you’re using is familiar with the local code.

49:55 – Tom Stein
So I have a guy, I’ll email you right now, I only trust him, his name is Michael Russo, absolutely fantastic architect, honest, very good the way he does, very creative, this is what he does, he actually does restaurant architectural does a lot of like also any kind of for example like what do you call what’s the the rest the not soul cycle but cycle bar right cycle bar that’s just opened up here so he does a lot of that you know commercial property real estate or architectural stuff so he knows all the ins and outs he knows stuff at county health department he He gets the back of the house and all that? He’s amazing. Matter of fact, I think it’s funny. He’s actually probably a little too knowledgeable, if that makes any sense. I remember arguing with him, but not really arguing with him, just debating him. I’m like, dude, Nobody’s gonna measure 36 inches. No Tom, you know what? You know, you never know man you get that one person does and then you gotta do a lawsuit I’m just like, all right Mike didn’t put it in, you know kind of like but he’s like that He’s very he wants to make sure you’re protected. I can’t hate on that. I really can’t he does everything, right? And he’s he’s respect. He’s a good guy.

51:08 – Jim Serpico
You’d really like him That’s awesome We’re trying to do something unorthodox. We’re really trying to create a bread production facility that has a little bit of pizza and small seating, like 12 seats. And I think the back of the house is going to be at least two-thirds of this place. The place we’re looking at right now is only like 1,230 square feet.

51:30 – Tom Stein
It’s probably 100 square feet of frontage and the rest is going to be back. Something like that. I mean bread, those Hobart machines and everything that you guys you need and do and I mean it takes a lot of space back there.

51:41 – Jim Serpico
And the tables, the shaping stations. Absolutely.

51:43 – Tom Stein
Absolutely. I mean, I think you’ll do great. I think your bread is probably some of the best I’ve ever had. I’m not just saying that because I’m on here. I really, truly do. I appreciate that. I honestly, if I did more bread stuff, I’d only use you, to be honest with you. I think you do fantastic stuff. I haven’t had your pizza, but from what I’m seeing and what I’m hearing, it looks incredible, to say the least. I appreciate that.

52:05 – Jim Serpico
I feel like I need to take it to the next level.

52:10 – Jim Serpico
I need my own place to work out of and it’ll just keep getting better and allow me to do… I still want to be part technician, that’s for sure. But the other crazy thing is we’re thinking about going 100% electric. Interesting.

52:25 – Tom Stein
Why? I’m just curious.

52:28 – Jim Serpico
Well, there’s a few reasons. One is there is no gas in the place.

52:33 – Tom Stein
I see.

52:34 – Jim Serpico
Two, mainly what I’m going to be producing is bread and pizza. And the ovens I want, that I know I want, and I will not move from these, are electric ovens. Right? So that’s the hub. So then I just need to then complement some kind of griddle, which there seems to be plenty of electric options. And I need to be able to have a grill to boil and, you know, whatever I have to do on a stove top. And the next reason is, if we could pull this off, first of all, it’s environmental friendly. I know some states are trying to pass laws where they’re not putting new gas lines in restaurant facilities. But if this would allow us to replicate the design in almost any space, because we don’t have to have the type one hoods.

53:29 – Tom Stein
Yeah, you don’t, you don’t. Even with a 950, you don’t, huh? It doesn’t.

53:34 – Jim Serpico
You don’t. You need to vent it out the ceiling, but you don’t need that hood. Just pipe straight through.

53:39 – Tom Stein
That’s a big expense to say the least. Because when I took this over, even though they had the pizza hoods here, I couldn’t use them for what I needed.

53:47 – Unidentified Speaker
Really?

53:48 – Tom Stein
Yeah, I had to change them out, get a stronger hood for that. Because all mine’s gas, and it’s heat with the grill and everything else, a lot of smoke, a lot of steam. The one thing I will say with the electric, from my experience, is the components go bad very fast. Just be very mindful of that. Those ovens that you want to get, if they offer some kind of warranty on it, it’s the only time I would ever say buy, buy the warranty. Extended warranty on those the one thing yeah I started off with the electric steam table that thing was just a pain I mean I mean within a few months I was already going non-stop everything else I do is gas just because it just it’s a it just heats faster and you know better and for what I need But, you know, if you can get away with it, if you’re with electric, rock it, do it. I mean, all the only thing I can say is just be mindful of the components, the electric components on, because you’re using it every day and those things get beat up, they go, they really do. Only from my experience though.

54:51 – Jim Serpico
I hear that. So you are serving mostly the community that your restaurant is in or people traveling?

55:01 – Tom Stein
Yeah, I mean, for the most part, yeah. Most people, I do now, get a lot of people, I do get, we do birria here, which we’ve been doing for a few years now, and I’ll put my birria against anybody, hands down. I get people coming from Astoria, Queens, just to have my birria, and mind you, there’s some big birria restaurants in Astoria. And that kind of stuff, and they say they come out here, and they’re like, dude, it’s really good. We only come out just for this. They’ll come on a day off just for this, and I think it’s humbling. It’s very cool to have people come from Astoria to drive to Huntington just for a lunch, which is pretty cool. So I’m very grateful for that.

55:40 – Jim Serpico
How’s the bar going? What way did you decide to put it in?

55:46 – Tom Stein
I started August 1st of last year, I started to do it. I felt like we kind of go back to what we started. It’s been very hard in terms of generating more revenue and I’m always trying to find other revenues. When I started off at Tommy Toc, because I did not want to do a bar, I just wanted to do beer and that was it, beer and sangria. Because I wanted it to be easier to duplicate when I wanted to open up more, but I realized People are really asking for margaritas people really want a bar It was a very so I was like, you know, let me try it. Let me try this Let me do it. So I invested in opening it up It was a very it’s been a very slow start. I would say probably my first three to, I’d say four to five months. It was pretty, you know, up and down, up and down. But now, for the first time, right now, for the first time, the bar is really, it’s getting better and better and better. The last few months, I’ve actually, I promoted a bartender from part-time to full-time. Her name is Kara, and she’s been fantastic. She brings in a lot of regulars so her bar is really busy and I also just recently hired a part-time girl named Lorena and she’s actually very very experienced in bartending so she brought a lot of New York vibe her you know kind of a New York vibe to the restaurant with her different cocktails and the way she does stuff and she also brings a lot of people brings a lot of she’s a nice following so the bar is definitely has gotten better for sure.

57:12 – Jim Serpico
So I haven’t thought about that. So the bartender makes that kind of a difference. They’re almost responsible for bringing a subset of customers. Huge. I had a bartender before.

57:23 – Tom Stein
you know, I thought she’d be a good bartender, you know, and it just didn’t pan out the way, you know, we, we want to pan out nothing bad by saying anything bad about her is that some people have it and some people don’t. Um, and some people are good on certain things and some people just not, you know, um, and you know, the bartender is everything. It’s, I hate to say it, it’s kind of your face of your restaurant, right? When you’re walking in, you know, Hey, how you doing? What’s going on? If you had that friendly personality behind the bar, I mean, you’re going to want to sit down. Even when you’re sitting there waiting for your food, and somebody’s talking to you, a bartender’s talking to you and gives you the time of day and some kind of, you know, entertainment, you’re probably going to order one.

57:58 – Unidentified Speaker
Or if not, you’ll be like, you know what, I’ll come back for the next one. You know, down, maybe next week, let me go back there and see how she’s doing, you know, and I’ll go in for a quick cocktail or something. And it works, it does. That’s awesome. Well, listen, I’m going to wrap this up. I learned a lot from talking to you today. You certainly have a pretty interesting journey. I’ll leave you with this. I don’t know if it’s possible. We did a collaboration once before My idea for the next one and this is really up to the landlord If I could bring my pizza truck in front of your store, and we do bury a pizza Jim. I absolutely Fucking love that idea. I don’t mean to curse on your show, but I freak I love it. I don’t care. I absolutely Would love to do this Dude, I love this idea, dude. This is great. I’m 100% for it. You tell me a day, and I’m not even going to tell my landlord. It’s a REIT. They don’t care. Yeah, man. Don’t listen. I’d rather ask for forgiveness on this one. What are we doing? We’re not doing it for a week. You know what I mean? No, no. I went to a limited amount. I could only put so many out, like 25,000. I love this idea. We got to talk about this. I love this idea a lot.

59:10 – Unidentified Speaker
This episode of Bread for the People was brought to you by Side Hustle Bread, Long Island’s handcrafted artisanal bread company. Side Hustle Bread is a family-run business that’s bringing the neighborhood feel back to Long Island one loaf at a time. If you like what you’re hearing, don’t forget to head on over to iTunes and rate and review this episode. Reviewing and rating is the most effective way to help us grow our audience. This episode was produced by Milestone TV and Film. I’m your host, Jim Serpico. Blessed be the bread, everyone.